~~~Artiphys~~~

Thursday, December 25, 2008

Atheists need to lighten up

this is a great post from Mormon author Orson Scott Card:

link

He hits the nail on the head wrt this new brand of atheistic Jihadism. Here's a choice quote:

"Let zealous atheists behave as we do. Send out your missionaries to teach any who are willing to listen. But don't deliberately seek occasions to offend others when nothing is at stake; and willingly admit whatever good things others believe in and do."

Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris would be wise to heed this motto. They come off as unbearably strident, intolerant, and arrogant in their beliefs and attitudes. 'Smarter-than-thou' is no better than Holier-than-thou. As Card says, it's faith (in Science) without charity.

What atheists need to do is understand that while they may have a good grasp of modern science, they have no particular advantage when it comes to answering the need people have for meaning, and they offer excruciatingly cold comfort for those in need of solace in the face of suffering.

We (atheists and agnostics) will not convince the rest of the world that they no longer need the crutch of blind faith unless we address these deep issues somehow. I've argued before that the main reason some intellectual types who one might expect to "know better" than to believe patently mythical tracts, often have an unacknowledged agenda. Orson Scott Card alludes to it in this passage:

"Even if every word they said happened to be true, why do they assume that society or individuals would somehow be better, or better off, if their favorite doctrines were universally held? Why shouldn't atheists assume that people ignorant enough to believe in gods, devils, angels, heaven and hell are actually happier and should be left alone?"

Think about what he's saying here. The fundamental argument is that the truth of the matter is not what is most important. He's explicitly acknowledging that even if there was incontrovertible evidence that religion was wrong, we might still be better off believing it. That's a pretty interesting comment from someone who professes to believe in a religion that many people find quite incredible. I don't mean to question Card's faith: I'm simply pointing out that by his own admission, objective truth is not as important as the overall impact on society that religion brings.

If you dig deeper into the writings of religious intellectuals, you see many comments of this nature. Their main thrust usually comes down to this: lack of religion leads to moral degeneration. They point to the eugenic practices of the Nazis (Card erroneously calls them atheist; they were nominally Christian, though it's pretty clear that was a cynical sop to the populace. Their driving ideology was of course Nietzschian, "God is Dead", we are our own gods, etc)

The real fear I think these people have about atheism is a legitimate one. If we throw off the shackles of religion and tradition, where will we find our 'moral compass'? What will keep us from 'playing God', in the worst way -- ala Nazi racism and eugenics, or the indiscriminate disregard of life shown by non-religious leaders such as Stalin or Pol Pot?

I've written before about how I think these issues need to be addressed. Despite claims to the contrary, science *does*, I believe, have something to say about these issues. It's a complex argument, and not nearly as satisfying as simply saying "it has been written". Maybe it could be reduced to a 10-commandments-style set of soundbytes. Or, more likely, Youtube clips.

Merry, merry, quite contrary!

7 comments:

Jason Maskell said...

The point of atheists speaking up is not just to be jerks - it's to counteract the political influence of the superstitious types.

I am tired of every political leader having to at least pretend to be a devout Christian (in the USA anyway).

I am tired of laws being passed because of the religious beliefs of a minority.

I am tired of religions like Cards lobbying (successfully) to take away entire groups civil rights, just because their particular cult doesn't like TEH GAY. Especially when they retain their tax free status afterwards.

I am tired of evangelicals and other zealots saying that you have to be religious to be moral or ethical.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the day when religion is looked upon as the crazy shit that it is. Until that day, us 16 percenters need to step up and take the influence we can.

To quote Bill Maher at the end of Religulous, referring to mankind:

"That's it. Grow up or die."

Anonymous said...

I agree with some of what you say politically, and I often find myself annoyed at the assumption of religiosity in our society. However, the question is, are you interested in changing it, or just being annoyed and angry? If you really want change, you need to understand the point of view you oppose. Otherwise you are just another wing nut to be dismissed by the mainstream as an angry eccentric.

BTW, Bill Maher comes off as a pathetically insecure, sad, unfulfilled human being. He is hardly a poster child for well-being. Richard Dawkins doesn't fare much better. Contrast that with the calm self-assurance of someone like Rick Warren (whose politics I detest), or Mike Huckabee. Until we have spokespeople who can come off as something other than bitchy members of a petty fringe group with what sound like silly, whiny complaints, there is absolutely no chance of changing people's minds.

Bill said...

Yes- speaking up to be counted. The atheist elite only seem elitist when compared to the masses of unthinking. Atheists are way underrepresented in the US and this is why so many of us are compelled to begin dialogue. They need to realize that we are among them.

Anonymous said...

I arrived here from Vered's blog. Your set of interests coincides with many of my own, so I thought I'd find it interesting here.

I didn't feel the need to say anything about being an agnostic or atheist (I've been both, and also religious, at different times in my life) until the spread of Christian fundamentalism. The aggressive proselytizing, constant reminding of those who don't want to hear it that everything is in God's hands, and efforts to make religious practices part of every area of life (work especially) made it necessary to speak up in favor of respect for all non-Christian approaches.

"...they offer excruciatingly cold comfort for those in need of solace in the face of suffering..." As do the atheists and agnostics (correct me if I'm wrong). The reason I became an atheist in the first place was because of some outrageous examples of suffering in my own family. As someone once put it, "obviously God doesn't care about the suffering of animals."

What pushes me towards a belief in some sort of afterlife, if not a god, is the death of dear loved ones and my own ever-nearer death.

artiphys said...

Hi Dot, and welcome to my blog. It's not very active at the moment, but I appreciate anyone taking the time to read my occasional ramblings.

Dot says:

"What pushes me towards a belief in some sort of afterlife, if not a god, is the death of dear loved ones and my own ever-nearer death."

I think that is probably the prime motivation behind religion. What gets atheists worked up though, is that the fact that it hurts to lose a loved one doesn't really have much impact on whether or not God actually exists, at least from a rational, scientific viewpoint.

If religions merely presented the idea that it would be nice if there was a God, and why don't we all behave nicely in any case, I think I would be fine with that. Some sects are like that today (Unitarians come to mind.) But lately, many more religious leaders are like Rick Warren, hoping to impose their morality on me and the rest of the world.

And then they have the insane idea that they are going to get involved in science, as in the "Intelligent Design" debate. Any time religion attempts to explain what exists and how it got there, it just falls flat on its face, IMSHO.

Anonymous said...

"...the fact that it hurts to lose a loved one doesn't really have much impact on whether or not God actually exists, at least from a rational, scientific viewpoint."

No, not from that point of view. However, more and more I believe that one can't confine oneself to being only rational and scientific about the universe.

I tend to look at things from the point of view of psychology. This past summer, when both of my beloved dogs died, whom I'd raised from puppies and lived with for 16 years, I felt I couldn't live with the idea that there wasn't an afterlife where I could be with them again. So I think there are aspects of life that may force a person to adopt a belief or faith in an afterlife. That says nothing about a god, so it's a bit off-topic.

There's also some evidence for reincarnation, though probably not enough to satisfy a strict scientist.

From your resume, I doubt you'll agree with much of that.

Anonymous said...

Let's pretend that religions are right...let's pretend the Mormons are right....let's pretend the Catholics are right...let's pretend the Jews are right...oh wait, they can't all be right, can they?

Self-assured? I think it's more like ignorance is bliss.

As for the missionaries of the Mormon faith telling atheists how to behave, perhaps they should spend a little more time in introspection and stop knocking on MY door. So the Mormons will be the deciders of how everyone else should behave? They have the misfortune of subscribing to a fairy tale that was initiated in modern times, but Mormonism is no more ridiculous than any other "faith".

I am a non-believer, not bold enough to be an atheist, because I'm not silly enough to believe I have enough insight to know. It is this group (Bush, Falwell, Huckabee, et. al.) that, based on mere stories, not only believes, but wants to force their nonsense on everyone else. Hmmm, sounds a little like the Taliban, doesn't it?

Non-believers don't want religious types to stop believing, we just want them to do it in private, as far away from us as possible.

The Road to Artificial Reality

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